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Lookup NU author(s): Dr Martin Farr
Full text is not currently available for this publication.
Author(s): Farr M
Publication type: Digital or Visual Media
Publication status: Published
Year: 2015
Series Title: History of Parliament Oral History Project
Series Editor(s): Emma Peplow, Priscila Pivatto
Extent of Work: 3hr. 13min.
Contents: Track One [1:13:17] [Session one: 22 November 2015] Interview with Hilton Dawson [HD]. Describes growing up in Newbiggin-by-the-Sea, fishing and mining village on Northumberland coast. Both parents and grandmother schoolteachers. Grew up in village surrounded by family, one brother. Religious family atmosphere, commitment to Christian values and family life; visits to grandmothers on weekends. No institutional ties. Father was teachers’ union representative. [02:20] Describes embarrassment of having schoolteachers for parents. Mentions background in Christian ethics and abandoning church in teens. Comment about not coming from Labour family; father a ‘Guardian’ liberal. Mentions Newbiggin had tradition of Conservatism and independence among fishing communities. Grandmother, a strong influence, came from family of publicans and coalminers and taught at church school for 40 years. Comment about grandmother’s influence on HD’s career. [cont. from 05:20] Describes love of football. Mentions father taught Bobby Charlton history at school. Anecdote about first experience of politics: protest again school dinners with school friend, Norman Fairbairn. Comment about radicalising influence of school. Mentions being class joker at secondary school and interest in politics building at time of Bob Dylan, Martin Luther King and student riots. Local politics was Labour party, who were to be despised; mentions cynicism of local politicians. Anecdote about Grandmother opening church bazaar. Mentions being aware of miners’ welfare but not implications, despite both grandfathers working down pit all their lives. [11:33] Comment about supporting Sunderland. [12:11] Describes feeling more revolutionary than national Labour party in youth. Comment about abandoning football for music. Recalls Woodstock, going to Bath Pop Festival in 1970 and growing hair long at Ashington Grammar School. Explains decision to study philosophy and politics at Warwick university, centre of student revolutions. Remark about not considering joining Labour party or building political career. [cont. from 14:51] Mentions meeting wife, Sue, in sixth form; father dying at end of HD’s sixth form education; and marriage to Sue after first year of university. Mentions going to Warwick university from 1972-75 and constant protest activity there. Describes love of university and course. Describes being anarchist but not getting involved in Marxist student politics, with their strong support for provisional IRA. Recalls student Kevin Gately killed on demonstration in London. [18:52] Mentions David Wood, lecturer of recent continental philosophy, and John Halliday, politics lecturer. Mentions getting a 2:2 but valuing overall experience more. [20:48] Discusses similar experiences of fellow 1990s Labour MPs. Mentions good relationship with Alan Milburn. Mentions Andrew Dismore being at Warwick at same time as HD, and Nita Clarke, later involved in Unison; remark about prominence of Unison in Warwick student union. Comment about MPs of that era having gone through 1980s and having to moderate tone of Labour party. Comment about not wanting to remain part of Labour while voting against it. Mentions being invited to join Campaign Group and being in ‘no’ lobby on Iraq and asylum with Jeremy Corbyn, Neil Gerrard, Dennis Skinner and Alice Mahon. Mentions Audrey Wise, Labour MP when HD was at Warwick, being wrongly verbally assaulted for being right wing and later MP for Preston, when HD was in Parliament. [cont. from 25:52] Comic comment about most of international Marxist group at Warwick becoming binmen in Coventry. Mentions working as brickworks labourer and at Coventry county court; comment about difficult but useful experience of court work and meeting man who had worked on kibbutz. Describes going to Israel with wife in 1976 for a few months to experience collective way of life. Remark about respecting people of kibbutz but finding rest of country difficult. Story about bus being stopped by army in Judaean desert and Arabs removed. Remark about experience inspiring HD to have children. [cont. from 31:30] Mentions returning to UK in 1977; joining Newcastle anarchists and occupying an office block. Explains disillusionment with utopian politics stems from that time. Returned to live with mother in Newbiggin. Sue worked as drama teacher at high school in Bedlington. Describes work at Choppington Welfare from 1977-79 in Scotland Gate, a deprived council estate. Comment about local pits being closed, but still many around. HD and wife got house on Scotland Gate estate; describes lessons learned from local people. Mentions low pay for long hours. Describes welcoming young people, running dances and bar. Remark about women being force for change, so HD developed playgroup and mother and baby group. Mentions getting to know nearby Travellers and those living on estate. Anecdote about woman’s bad reaction to HD living in Scotland Gate. Remark about it being rough but warm and accepting community. Comments about differences between men and women on estate. Mentions daughter grew up there. [40:52] Mentions frustration at lack of influence over young people’s lives and consequent decision to become social worker in 1979; remark about changed perception of HD in Choppington following appointment. Describes camaraderie of team in Bedlington and positives and benefits of social work. Describes realisation at Welfare that Labour councillors were doing good work for their community and consequent decision to join Labour in 1978; worst time possible, just before winter of discontent. Discussion about necessary political compromises. [46:40] Remark about Margaret Thatcher [MT] being less of an issue than local issues. Mentions joining Labour party in Blyth, which through 70s had been involved in T. Dan Smith and John Poulson corruption. Mentions meeting courageous MP, Eddie Milne [EM], at Welfare, who formed Independent Labour party. Recalls learning about canvassing and electioneering from Bill Drew, local councillor and leader of Wansbeck council. Mentions task of getting horrendous London barrister, John Ryman, re-elected in 1979 in Blyth, against EM. [49:40] Describes being horrified at some Labour party meetings. Comment about right-wing nature of party and local government being run not from town halls but party meetings. [cont. from 50:54] Mentions moving to Morecambe in 1980. HD needed to qualify as social worker. Describes initial struggle and then getting place at Lancaster University on excellent course; remarks about great two years there. Mentions getting housing association house in Skerton. Remark about contrast between Labour party in north-east and Lancaster in terms of views on disarmament. Describes Lancaster party fighting in solidly Tory area with right-wing MP, Dame Elaine Kellett-Bowman [EKB]. Mentions Tory MP and council in Morecambe. Mentions having second daughter, doing placement in Preston and getting a job. Describes work of David Thorpe, David Smith and Norman Tutt centre for youth crime and community. [55:21] Remark about problem of ‘layer of political permafrost’ in north-east now. Describes Lancaster as full of ideas and excitement. Mentions being first student to work with David Thorpe, David Smith and Norman Tutt in Rochdale and Stockport on Lancaster model of social work intervention. [56:49] Mention of Rochdale corruption revelations. In 1981, Rochdale was progressive local authority, first in country to embrace new Lancaster model. Describes decision to stand for office in late 1970s. Mentions standing unsuccessfully as Lancaster City councillor in 1983; comment about it being Tory ward despite huge, denigrated council estate. Remark about people from estate not voting and Labour party members living in middle-class areas. Mentions getting abuse from people on estate. Describes being agent for Labour candidate Abbott Bryning, at Morecambe and Lunesdale in 1983, at which Labour came third, behind SDP. [1:02:04] Remembers being in favour of Tony Benn in 1981. Remark about coming to see need for realistic policies and proper engagement; from 1983-87 used Choppington community work tactics on the Ryelands estate. Story about successful work with women on traffic calming following children being hit by traffic. Remark about community action. Mentions one member of notorious family voting for HD five times. Describes encouraging people on estate to vote. [cont. from 1:07:43] Mentions being candidate for ward in 1987 and getting on to the city council, then agent for Jos Gallacher [JG] in Lancaster; remark about JG being bright. Mentions rising stars of Labour—John Prescott, Ken Livingstone, David Blunkett [DB], Dennis Skinner, Joan Maynard—coming to speak in Lancaster as part of campaign. Mentions DB coming to HD’s house for tea. Mentions HD being elected to council and sense of party growth. Recalls EKB being considered insane by her party members, including Ted Heath. [1:11:07] Remark about national state of Labour party being much better in 1987 than 1983. Mentions Lancaster not being target seat, but worth watching; recalls Clare Short’s encouragement while visiting during campaign. Describes Neil Kinnock [NK] leading with more coherent approach than previously. Comic aside about EKB telling HD of her victory. [1:12:43] Mentions being on city council post-1987. Summary: Track 2 [2:00:25] [Session two: 22 November 2015] Describes work as councillor, battling Tories on city council. Mentions becoming deputy leader of council in 1989. Mentions Stanley Henig, previously only Labour MP in Lancaster, becoming council leader; remark about great experience of working with him. Mentions breakthrough of winning 1991 elections. Describes picketing at Glasson dock during 1980s. Mentions managing children’s homes and fostering; remark about such work in two different authorities being outlawed and appealing successfully to continue it. Describes effective work with people in care, using influence on housing policy. [06:02] Mentions being on city council at time of 1992 election and trying to get Lancaster nomination, but losing to Ruth Henig, who lost to EKB. Describes process of trying to get nomination; mentions having been secretary and chair of constituency Labour party. Recalls attitude in 1997 of HD as sacrificial lamb candidate, especially as boundary changes to form Lancaster and Wyre brought in strong Tory voting areas. EKB retired before 1997 election, saying she had made seat safe for Conservatives forever. [09:28] Mentions disappointment at Labour not winning 1992 election. Mentions liking inspirational NK but finding John Smith [JS] appealing. Mentions decision to concentrate on career after 1992; was re-elected to city council in 1995, but stood down from positions of responsibility to focus on other work. Story about Simon Henig, now leader of Durham County Council, ringing HD to ask if he could nominate HD for general election. Describes deciding to stand; mentions Tony Blair [TB] leadership being huge improvement and EKB’s retirement. [13:16] Detailed description of why Labour would not have won if JS was leader in 1997. Mentions never having met JS but not liking him. Remark about JS being a step back from NK, and fondness of NK. [cont. from 15:37] Mentions being confirmed as candidate in January 1996. Remark about determination to get elected, despite doubters. Describes official Labour line that Lancaster and Wyre not a target seat, so people from constituency to be sent to Blackpool North and Fleetwood and to Blackpool South. Constituency line to win county and city council election, so HD built campaign from friends and people recently attracted to Labour. Detailed description of campaign work and raising profile with team through stunts. Describes bizarre campaign tactics of Conservative candidate, Keith Mans. Remark about confidence due to TB doing well and Labour winning council seats in parts of Wyre for first time. [22:47] Mentions Lancaster houses being full of Labour posters. Mentions hearing exit poll swing on way to result and tense wait. Describes process of recount; HD gained 400 votes. Recalls driving back from Fleetwood to Lancaster in triumph, then going back to Mayor’s parlour and getting drunk. Story about Methodist lady, Mary Wilding, standing in front of portrait of Jimmy Williamson, Lancaster MP from 1886-1895, punching air and singing ‘The Red Flag’. Mentions having tour of constituency the day after, then going down to Parliament on Monday. Remarks about importance of both Blair effect and local engagement and students in constituency. Discussion of John Major [JM] making mistake by leaving election to end of university terms. [cont. from 29:01] Mentions having gone to House of Commons [HOC] in 1960s as a student, to hear speech by “Mad Mitch”, Colin Mitchell. Remark about delight at getting elected and eagerness to make change. Mentions TB calling HOC “palace of varieties” and seeing it as a means for change. Describes love of HOC. Comic remark about JM asking to borrow pen in Library. Mentions not getting much introduction to HOC; story about meeting with Greg Pope, Whip for the north-west, who left him in Strangers talking to a ‘News of the World’ journalist. Mentions TB’s welcome. Remark about lack of formal familiarisation. Mentions talking in Tea Room with Dale Campbell-Savours and Eric Martlew and Scottish MPs. [33:33] Describes ease of talking to TB or Gordon Brown [GB] in early days, and gradual distancing. Comic story about HD’s failed attempt to ask constructive questions at first PLP meeting; remark about that being first sign of what sent HD out of Parliament. Remark about blind obedience in PLP. Mentions having run-ins with Whips, but not being serial rebel. Mentions hard-line attitude of Tommy McAvoy, pairing Whip. Remark about being effective constituency MP because of willingness to challenge on constituency issues. Remark about candidates from seats not expected to win not being valued by party. Mentions voting against party early on, over cuts to single-parent child benefit; story about HD and Lynne Jones, Campaign Group MP, talking to GB, and GB’s dismissive attitude. Comment about commitment to and pride in Government programme. Remark about nuisance Labour MPs. [cont. from 40:44] Mentions love of being in Chamber. Describes passion for children’s welfare and knowledge of issue. Remark about HD not being put on Select Committees. Describes starting all-party group for children and young people in care, taking delegation to see TB and lobbying for children’s commissioner. Mentions reputation in Parliament for taking up children’s issues. [43:37] Remark about excellence of HOC Library research. Mentions holding two surgeries a week. Comment about irony that those who voted for him on council estates did not engage much, and those who did not engaged more. Recalls engaging with farming communities, at difficult time for them; story about farmer collapsing in front of HD and an elderly farmer’s struggle. Comic remark about comment from man at Yorkshire market. Mentions constantly attending constituency events; describes local fetes and realisation that Tories had taken area for granted. Describes people’s surprise at getting on with Labour MP. Describes constituency work of MP. Mentions effective casework of Elaine Mallon, who worked with HD in social services, in Lancaster office. Mentions many success stories and making a newsletter, rather than propaganda. [cont. from 52:15] Mentions initially having two full-time workers, Glyn and Elaine; Glyn then replaced by Emily, HD’s agent at 2001 election. Mentions wife doing some work in constituency and Westminster, with 1.5 staff members in constituency office. Mentions extra staff provided by charities when HD started work on all-party groups on Sudan and Angola. Remark about state support for staffing improving. Describes wife’s valuable help. [57:05] Discussion of HD’s awareness of Westminster scandals. Mentions seeing MPs develop drink problems and ease of doing so at Westminster. Describes knowing and liking Elliot Morley, who went to prison; mentions shock. Mentions knowing and liking David Chaytor. Remark about most MPs working hard and being easy to get on with; mentions enjoying social side of Commons and overlooked work of Standing Committees. Recalls positive experience of sitting on Committee for Sexual Offences Bill: Chairman, Roger Gale, congratulated Committee on having such a serious discussion of the issues across party lines. Remark about Whips wanting MPs to vote, not contribute on such Committees. Mentions enjoying other Bills such as Adoption and Children Bill. Remark about contribution to and engagement with Parliament. [cont. from 1:02:09] On procedural changes, describes negative effect of programme motions and positive effect of elected chairs and elections to Select Committees. Describes good experience of being on Lord Chancellor’s Select Committee, chaired by Alan Beith. Describes all-party groups as good means to debate issues. Recalls Sudanese politicians coming to speak for Sudanese APPG. Mentions going to Burundi, at request of UNICEF Burundi, with Martin Bell [MB] and Oona King, and to Angola. Mentions speaking to warlords and freedom fighters, and seeing horrific things and work of Médecins sans Frontières in places such as Darfur. [1:07:30] Describes combative but positive relations with Conservative MPs. Mentions clashing with Andrew Robathan and enjoying his company on trips to Africa; mentions John Bercow coming to Sudan. Remark about enjoying debate with Dominic Grieve on Sexual Offences Bill. Mentions MPs such as Julian Brazier interested in children’s issues. Mentions big issue of park homes, in which David Cameron was interested. [cont. from 1:09:41] Mentions expecting to win 2001 election; more organised than in 1997. Agent, Emily Lomax, had worked for HD and built up team. Describes much canvassing over the years. Mentions people in Parliament telling HD he would lose. Remark about Tory candidate, Steve Barclay [SB], not being strong and making mistake of bringing MT to constituency before election. Mentions support of MB. Describes shock and disappointment at winning by only 400. Remark about difficulty of building relationship with great number of students in constituency. Mentions low turnout. Mentions there being more resources in 2001 than 1997 and money provided by Unison, which refused to support him in 1997. Remark about it being best campaign HD had been involved in, and result therefore disappointing. Summary: Track 2 [cont.] [1:17:50] Remark about losing heart after 2001 result but continuing good work in HOC on children’s services and constituency work. Mentions getting investment in constituency and transformation of Lancaster University; mentions work with pro-vice-chancellor of Lancaster University, Richard Davies. Mentions lighting millennium beacon at Lancaster and feeling hopeful, until 9/11. [1:20:34] Remark about 9/11 being when TB lost his way; amazement at how MPs were treated as voting fodder and pressure on those who raised questions. Mentions getting verbal lashing from Hilary Armstrong, Chief Whip, on Iraq. Mentions supporting action in Sierra Leone and Afghanistan, but not Iraq. Remarks about TB’s determination to stick with George Bush disastrous to TB’s leadership and tainted HD’s second term. [1:23:55] Mentions never seeking ministerial office; wanted to have influence, not toe party line. Remark about there being no desire for conversation on Iraq, just loyalty. Recalls being called to see Jack Straw in his office during Iraq debate and HD saying he would not support Government. [1:26:14] Mentions deciding not to stand again in September 2003; describes reasons and feeling of powerlessness. Story about inability to help young man, formerly in care of a home HD had controlled, put in B&B accommodation. Mentions horrors seen in Darfur. Describes sense of disillusionment with parliamentary work and TB, and acknowledgement that HD would be beaten. Remark about constituents voting against HD to spite TB. Comment about HD’s attempt to overturn Bill on cutting of benefits to asylum seekers. Discussion of changed interface with electorate. [cont. from 1:32:30] Recalls David Drew, one of HD’s best friends in Parliament, claiming he voted against Government one year more than Jeremy Corbyn. Mentions voting with Government on issues such as tuition fees, so felt he had some leverage on some issues with Ministers such as Charles Clarke, but voted against Government when he thought that was right. On local media, HD said one local freesheet always denigrated Labour, but most local reporting fair. Noted that unlike in north-east, where one never sees reporting of councils and MPs, there was a lot of reporting of such issues. Recalls that Tony Baldry said he would rather have a BSE dead cow disposal site in his constituency than asylum seekers; HD said that was a disgrace and asylum seekers welcome in Lancaster and Wyre. Remark about being driven out of party for saying what he thought, and party message discipline going too far. [1:38:25] Describes usefulness of rich experience before going to Parliament. Remark about it being good HD’s children were grown up by time he was MP. Recalls being furious when Parmjit Dhanda was made Minister for Children. Recalls many MPs at time had been in working-class careers before, including social workers. Remark about not expecting to be made Minister because of record in PLP. Mentions getting on well with Children’s Ministers such as Margaret Hodge and wanting to be children’s commissioner. Mentions getting on to shortlist for children’s rights director but not going for it. [cont. from 1:43:20] Remark about never regretting standing down. Mentions loving first term but getting fed up halfway through second. Remark about potential damage to Sue of being MP’s wife. Mentions being delighted to have had experience, but worthwhile to do things before and after Parliament; remark about disapproval of MPs sitting in safe seats for many years and negative effect on democracy. [1:46:40] Remark about missing being able to talk in Parliament about and vote on issues of concern. Describes Parliament as good club. Mentions having seven books of cuttings from time in Parliament. [1:48:42] Mentions working for Childline after 2005 election, then becoming chief executive of Shaftesbury Young People and chair of National Academy for Parenting Practitioners, reporting to Children’s Minister, Beverley Hughes. In both capacities went to Chequers to discuss matters with TB; remark about having more influence in that capacity than as a backbencher. Worked for Serco in children’s services and as consultant. Was chief executive of British Association of Social Workers and general secretary of the Social Workers Union. Remark about work in devolved areas backing up HD’s positive views on devolution. HD returned to Northumberland, wrote column for ‘The Journal’ and got involved in Newbiggin-by-the-sea genealogy project. Describes genesis of North East party in June 2014. Mentions getting 2,000 votes in general election and winning town council elections in Peterlee and Durham. [cont. from 1:53:58] Detailed description of flaws with devolution referendum. Describes obstacles to devolution. Remark about people being willing to support an effective regional government model. Remark about learning importance of devolution, due to London-centric thinking, from experience as MP, head of quango and so. Describes how reserved powers model while allowing accountable regional government across England on important issues would lead to fairer society and better economy and allow Parliament to debate compelling issues. Describes attempts to make Parliament accessible to constituents. Remark about pride in being MP and part of democracy, and importance of avoiding party-political rut.
Publisher: History of Parliament Trust
Place Published: London
Type: Interview
Format: audio files 2 WAV 48 kHz 24 bit stereo
Performers(s): Hilton Dawson
URL: http://cadensa.bl.uk/uhtbin/cgisirsi/?ps=beYgTz2aqK/WORKS-FILE/62060022/9
